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Hiddenshade0

Question on how tracking works

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Posted (edited)

I've had the Vive Cosmos since October 20th. I've had tracking issues since day one regardless of if I had the beta software installed. Now by Beta 1.0.9.6 I'm trying it and it is very slightly improved but overall good tracking in day when I have my blinds open on a clear day. But at night with my ceiling fan light on at it's brightest, still I'm met with split second tracking loss and re-connections to tracking loss that lasts up to two to three minutes.

It is to my knowledge that the tracking is light based but I am curious to know after getting the error message stating "Brighten your room or move to a brighter environment" during every disconnect. So I just want to know. How does the Vive cosmos tracks the environment and controllers, and why does it constantly berate me with the same light error message when I'm in a room with a ceiling fan centered lighting up every inch of it. I want to support the vive cosmos because I KNOW it's not a terrible product like everyone claims it to be.

Edit: Forgot to mention that the lights in my room compared to actual sunlight is yellow compared to a clear white lightning from my windows in the morning to afternoon.

Edited by Hiddenshade0
Forgot to add crucial detail

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Posted (edited)

Okay so, 

The Vive cosmos works a lot on light & it's cameras. 
In regards to the controllers, It can see the light loops on the controls. It knows which control is left & which is right and does what is needed with the loops for hand tracking via it's cameras and other sensors. 
In regards to the room & lighting your environment it relies on the cameras (6 of them) to track your room. 
The way the room is mapped via gradient map (Lots of little photos it takes and turns into data) it creates a depth table for tracking. 

If you have black furniture, mirrors, dark windows etc. it will also affect your tracking. Basically anything light absorbing or lacking.

You can re-map your room in the evening to help as well or get some lamps, If you have other room doorways you can see that are dark try turning those room lights on as well. 

Another way is double click the (Vive) button on the right controller when it's dark to enable camera view. And look around, Look what is obnoxiously dark and try to fix that. 

 

Cheers
 

Edited by HoZy
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What this translates to me is that I have to cover up any black furniture. My room is small, just enough for a minimum play space or if I push my furniture together, I get an extra foot of space across all four boundary walls. I thought my light would be the cause of the issues but I just naturally have incompatible furniture. That is...discouraging that I have to find something to cover up the dark furniture and maybe add some color to my bare black and white room.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Hiddenshade0 said:

What this translates to me is that I have to cover up any black furniture. My room is small, just enough for a minimum play space or if I push my furniture together, I get an extra foot of space across all four boundary walls. I thought my light would be the cause of the issues but I just naturally have incompatible furniture. That is...discouraging that I have to find something to cover up the dark furniture and maybe add some color to my bare black and white room.

I have black couches, Which surround my play area. I just have another light on and it fixes the issue. 

Cheers
 

Edited by HoZy
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So I wonder how Oculus inside out tracking works since it doesn't have lights on the controllers? Also when htc was designing the cosmos I wonder why they chose the lighted controller tracking over whatever Oculus is using? 

And before anyone asks these are genuine questions, I'm not baiting or trying to troll. My cosmos arrives today and this will be my first real VR headset besides the Google daydream phone VR from a couple years ago. I did alot of research before deciding on the cosmos. Long as they keep improving the tracking I believe it will be one of the best headsets with it's great screen and upgradability (As long as they utilize the modular front faceplate like they say). 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Coryh4225 said:

So I wonder how Oculus inside out tracking works since it doesn't have lights on the controllers? Also when htc was designing the cosmos I wonder why they chose the lighted controller tracking over whatever Oculus is using? 

And before anyone asks these are genuine questions, I'm not baiting or trying to troll. My cosmos arrives today and this will be my first real VR headset besides the Google daydream phone VR from a couple years ago. I did alot of research before deciding on the cosmos. Long as they keep improving the tracking I believe it will be one of the best headsets with it's great screen and upgradability (As long as they utilize the modular front faceplate like they say). 

From what I've seen the Rings were flipped from underneath to on top for the Rift S & Quest controllers because they still use IR LED in the ring of the controller (According to their press info) but without the base stations so I assume the cameras don't have IR filters in them so that's how they work a lot better for occluded controllers Vs. the Cosmos which just looks for the rings from what I gather I haven't tried to purposely cover the cosmos ring to see if it still tracks at all. 

 

Cheers

 

Also, I wouldn't stress too much. Very much so enjoying the Cosmos here. The last couple of updates helped the tracking a LOT. 

Edited by HoZy
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7 hours ago, Coryh4225 said:

So I wonder how Oculus inside out tracking works since it doesn't have lights on the controllers? Also when htc was designing the cosmos I wonder why they chose the lighted controller tracking over whatever Oculus is using?

@Coryh4225, There was a very high profile and expensive lawsuit Oculus was involved in-part over the IR based tracking systems used in Rift hardware. We're using optical on our inside-out HMDs because there are IP issues around marker based IR based solutions. That said, we do license Valve's IR tracking solution for Vive & Vive Pro... It's a different type of tracking called outside-in that's mechanically based.

Here's a Facebook article about Insight tracking - I'd suggest taking it with a grain of salt as there is a complex and legally intensive history surrounding this branch of tracking technologies.

@Hiddenshade0 , I'd recommend using pass-through mode (i.e. roomsetup) to evaluate what the HMD sees your environment and how the cameras are adjusting their exposure values. What could be happening is that specific light is that it's bright enough or in a specific position that it forces the cameras to lower their exposure values to keep the sensor from being over saturated and as a net result, the rest of the room becomes underexposed.

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The golden key is even lightning.

Too bright spots let the cams underexpose the darker areas in the room.

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On 1/7/2020 at 2:07 PM, VibrantNebula said:

@Coryh4225, There was a very high profile and expensive lawsuit Oculus was involved in-part over the IR based tracking systems used in Rift hardware. We're using optical on our inside-out HMDs because there are IP issues around marker based IR based solutions. That said, we do license Valve's IR tracking solution for Vive & Vive Pro... It's a different type of tracking called outside-in that's mechanically based.

Here's a Facebook article about Insight tracking - I'd suggest taking it with a grain of salt as there is a complex and legally intensive history surrounding this branch of tracking technologies.

You mean Facebook has the monopoly on IR internal tracking?!! That's incredible! IR is just part of the light spectrum, there shouldn't be an IP on it! 

Knowing that, HTC should have continued with external tracking (for sure everything will be solved with the external tracking faceplate). Anyway thank you for the explanation, that answers most of the questions about the Cosmos tracking issues. I'm amazed by what could already be done with optical internal tracking alone. Hope you also have an IP on it!

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