Cosmos Beta Release - 1.0.8.3

[Phr00t]

I'm worried one of the main problems is the lighting design on the controllers. Oculus and Windows Mixed Reality went with dots, and their tracking is solid. Cosmos went with thick lines with some sharp angles. May be harder to see and differentiate this from backgrounds, especially with variable lighting conditions. This is something that couldn't be solved by software updates. I doubt HTC would admit to this, though, since they'd have to have a path for owners to get replacement controllers.

It is really a shame, though! The visuals, field of view, audio and comfort on this headset is very good.

[Dickytwo]

3 hours ago, Phr00t said:

I'm worried one of the main problems is the lighting design on the controllers. Oculus and Windows Mixed Reality went with dots, and their tracking is solid. Cosmos went with thick lines with some sharp angles. May be harder to see and differentiate this from backgrounds, especially with variable lighting conditions. This is something that couldn't be solved by software updates. I doubt HTC would admit to this, though, since they'd have to have a path for owners to get replacement controllers.

It is really a shame, though! The visuals, field of view, audio and comfort on this headset is very good.

@stvnxuwhat is your technical team’s comment on this please? Are we being strung along with no satisfactory tracking solution possible? I would rather just know now if that is the case.

[darkmattermonkey77]

13 hours ago, The_Donkey said:

 

I would guess that most of the people here come from the engineering field...;) - and while what you say is true to a certain point when i compare the comos state of release with other headsets at the point of their release it becomes obvious that there is a difference in what we seem to consider "prone to issues"...

i just gave it another shot with the new firmware - beat sabre, pistol whip, audioshield, ...whatever you want - while beeing a lot better since when it came out it is a hell of frustration if you have ever played on a different headset...i moved 3 new lights to my playroom to get the "too dark" thing gone, but the tracking is not even close to my odyssey+ (which i have a lot to complain about - no question)...but the tracking worked from the beginning - same goes for the oculus quest...again - we seem to have a different opinion on "works fine" it seems - or you dont have experience with other devices...i dont know...

I for myself decided to keep my cosmos for seated gaming and development - for me its the most comfortable device i have tried so far and also the visual quality is completely on point for my personal standards...but the tracking and the controllers are still in the category 'useless' from my point of view and experience...I still have hope for the next updates but realisticly i think if they didnt get it to work till now it seems to require a hardware update...so speaking for myself - currently i think this was my first and last HTC device - its ok for flight simulations (or stuff like elite, eve, ...) or development but a bit too expensive for that...

And from a customer point of view i myself would appreciate if (but this goes for any VR brand on the market) HTC would focus more on the hardware development and not on having another seperate store on the market...i myself feel like the most (or too much) effort during development was put into having other place to sell software on than on putting together a working device. I myself dont care about any store where my money is wasted the moment i get another device - but maybe others do...i dont see the customer benefit in that....while i would see it in a working tracking on the cosmos....;)

Sooo envious of your eve online experience! I was a beta tester for it and then spent two years playing.  Loved it, sadly my (now ex) wife wasn’t a fan on the amount of time I put into it so ended up deleting the account. 

Edited November 22, 2019 by darkmattermonkey77

[The_Donkey]

20 minutes ago, darkmattermonkey77 said:

Sooo envious of your eve online experience! I was a beta tester for it and then spent two years playing.  Loved it, sadly my (now ex) wife wasn’t a fan on the amount of time I put into it so ended up deleting the account. 

I never played eve online..xD - is it even VR compatible? I gave valkyrie a shot but im not so much into pvp only...elite:dangerous on the other hand was quite impressive and fun - but i found myself having to look things up on the web too much as a newbie and that was too annoying with a headset without a way to flip the display up (i wear glasses). So i put it aside for a while...but now the cosmos wil be my go-to device for these cases.

But regarding the topic and my argumentation - i bought the cosmos becasue i expected it to be a better version of what i used my odyssey+ for...and even quite good for use-casses where i have to switch between VR and the "Real world" regularly - like my case with elite or development. But now i feel like the device is ONLY usable for this. Anything involving the controllers is so frustrating if you ever had the experience with a different device that i dont see how i will be able to completely replace my odyssey with the cosmos. Fast movements, re-detecting the controllers when the leave the tracked field and return in sensor-range...the precision...i dont get, how this can still be so far away from standards of other devices now close to a year old.

I can imagine resaons like Phr00t brought up - in my post i already assumed that there will be a limit with the current hardware - and i get more and more the impression that the best result will still be worse than what i assumed as the "minimum" based on my experience with other devices. And i cant get over the fact that this was pretty obvious to HTC before they published it. Go back and read the reviews...they were wondering why on the tests no beat sabre was available - some magazines even didnt want to publish their review because the tracking was so sub-par. I had expectations that HTC will be able to improve this and that just marketing and/or business had the last call on the release date. But the longer this situation continues i come to the point that i will assume that the cosmos will never get to the level of tracking of other devices that cost less than half the price. I still have use-cases for it, so i'm keeping it. But i cannot help not to feel like that in this case there were some "communication gaps" if you want to call it like that. VR is still not settled and i tried out every platform the market has. I didnt like oculus for some reasons and i felt like WMR has been very "silent" in the last time, the cosmos looked like everything i want in a VR-headset...so i gave HTC a shot - but this ...;)

 

in the end - its just something their engineers can fix. And i still have the opinion that the cosmos should never have shipped in this condition. But we will see what the future brings...;)

[A-Jey]

19 hours ago, darkmattermonkey77 said:

Lol, I’m an engineer.  An 99% success rate is phenomenal in newer gear.  Remember that the next time you buy anything new! Home appliances, cars, ect. They always are prone to issues and assuming they will be purchased with zero defects will set you up for disappointment EVERY time. 

You got me completely wrong here!

I know what i can expect on buying a hardware on release.
And I won't already have sent in 3 logs just to provide data to help them succeeding with the updates.

Of course the tracking is on a good way and they're on the right train which I wrote in another comment.

I wrote that they fail IF they don't get the issues under control, i didn't say that it got to be now.
But through the next several updates it will show if they can manage to get it to the 100% which has to be the goal.

No more no less.

[stvnxu]

Hey sorry for the late response here everyone. Just came back from a business trip and will now address each of your concerns in the proper order. Hang tight!

[stvnxu]

On 11/20/2019 at 9:01 AM, A-Jey said:

@stvnxu:

with this report I also renew my asking for several room setups to be saved in the headset.
Everytime I change the gaming room I got to do the room setup again.
And now in wintertimes I will often start in living room on daylight and move to gaming room when it's dark.

So this is usually a pain in the A$$...

I think this could be managed by having like 3 slots in the headset and the slots are sticked to the computername for example.
And if a new computer name is recognized an empty slot will be taken for room setup.
For the case all 3 slots are taken by different computers and another one comes into play then it overwrites the slot with the longest time unused...

@A-Jey Thanks for the feedback. I'll share with our engineering team. 

Also confirming I've successfully received your two issue reports. Thanks for the submission.

Steve

[stvnxu]

@A-Jey, @TomCgcmfc, @Ptipsecurity, and others with similar comment - Thanks for your honest feedback on your dissatisfaction of this beta version. Will forward to engineering team to address.

 

[stvnxu]

On 11/21/2019 at 9:05 AM, Phr00t said:

Any idea on when to expect the next tracking update? My final return window ends on November 27th and I am getting a bit nervous. Although I did have fun during my last round of testing with the Cosmos, my Samsung Odyssey+ still delivers a better experience for hundreds less. The Cosmos could top the Odyssey+ if the Cosmos tracking was acceptable within its much larger tracking volume, but I'm only happy waiting for that update when I know I can get my money back if it doesn't show. I really appreciate all the work you've put into this, and I hope it continues...

 

@stvnxu

Still waiting to hear back from the team on the schedule. Please know that updates for tracking improvements will continue, and I understand the main concern is a matter of when. 

Thanks,

Steve

[stvnxu]

On 11/21/2019 at 12:04 PM, Phr00t said:

I'm worried one of the main problems is the lighting design on the controllers. Oculus and Windows Mixed Reality went with dots, and their tracking is solid. Cosmos went with thick lines with some sharp angles. May be harder to see and differentiate this from backgrounds, especially with variable lighting conditions. This is something that couldn't be solved by software updates. I doubt HTC would admit to this, though, since they'd have to have a path for owners to get replacement controllers.

It is really a shame, though! The visuals, field of view, audio and comfort on this headset is very good.

23 hours ago, Dickytwo said:

@stvnxuwhat is your technical team’s comment on this please? Are we being strung along with no satisfactory tracking solution possible? I would rather just know now if that is the case.

@Phr00t - Great observation, but I wouldn't quickly conclude that tracking is capped at its current performance due to the lighting designs. There's also the factor of training and improving the algorithms to adjust to the variables at play. 

@Dickytwo & @Phr00t

As you've seen, tracking has been improved by previous updates, however, there is still more work needed to be done to meet the customer expectations. Tracking will continue to be the number 1 priority in our ongoing software updates.

I will note to not have expectations of the inside out tracking outperforming the light houses (VIVE & VIVE Pro). External sensors will always be superior given the position and visibility it has on the headset/controllers. For users that are seeking the absolute best tracking performance, then please stay tuned for more on the Cosmos Steam plate which directly supports light house tracking. 

Thanks,
Steve