Cosmos Beta release - 1.0.7.1

[TomCgcmfc]

1 hour ago, T said:

@TomCgcmfc

I don't use SteamVR Home, I use whatever the default void is when neither Origin nor SteamVR Home is loaded. Like you, I do most things from lens but I bring the SteamVR dashboard to clear the stuck transfer animation to Origin and to use SteamVR dashboard extensions or SteamVR desktop view. As for the option to start Origin I believe we can both agree that having a menu option that can't be selected or used is a bug, either remove the menu option or make it usable. The camera problem won't be apparent if you are using the default normal view cause the problem is it resets to the default normal view. I am using only one room and it's recognized after an update so no need to redo room calibration, my problem is with Vivelens and Origin explaining to me each time the controls.

I redid all my tracking tests with the camera view off and the controllers had the same tracking and occlusion problems. I even did them by directly looking at the lamps and the other way, same tracking. Also no apparent change in exposure in the transparent camera view when I look to the lamp or away from it. Controller wombling isn't terrible and without the camera view as a point of reference or any other kind or reference it's hard to see. Another test is to touch both halos together like bumping fists and move around while having them in your centre view. While both halos are visible and both controllers are physically coupled together, if you move around you can see their models wombling around or partially meshing together.

Mind you these are observations, I didn't call them bugs. If the controller gets better tracking swell, if not my usage is mostly cockpit and I use the controllers for whatever menu controls are locked in VR and can't be accessed via keyboard/mouse/joystick. The current tracking is adequate to interact with a menu but it fails miserable whenever a controller or an arm partially occludes the other. Keeping them apart is not a solution in many VR games, you couldn't care less cause you are keeping your hands apart, I couldn't care less cause I don't play games that require a VR controller but I believe there are a lot of people that care and want to move the controllers one in front the other (eg. gun & bow games) or move wildly their hands around (eg. sword & melee games) without nonsensical constraints. Coming from the Vive lighthouse controllers, having as a requirement for the controllers to not be even partially occluded is a serious downgrade and not a good sale pitch, "Don't cross the streamscontrollers… It would be bad…".

Sorry mate but the only thing I said I could care less about is not being able to select Origin as your startup place.   I guess for those that do want to do this the greyed out box (it's been greyed out since the first version btw) is something that needs fixing.  The rest I obviously do care a lot about, including your current issues or I wouild not bother replying to you.

I still do not see your need to jump into SteamVR dashboard but maybe you find this helpful.  Once I'm in the startup Homeless Vive void I rarely feel the need to go into origin.  When I do the animation does not seem to last all that long for me, maybe 10 seconds tops.  Could be I have a slightly faster PC than you, who knows (i9 9900k oc @ 5Ghz, gtx1080ti, 32gb 3000 ram, 1tb ssd, 4tb hdd).  I think that once you start going back/forth into SteamVR there is more potential for problems creeping in.  But I cannot say for sure.  I just try to avoid doing this.  If I need to change SteamVR setting I seem to be able to do this fine by right clicking on the SteamVR overlay that initially pops up when I startup Vive Console.  I also do not feel the need for a VR desktop since the nice thing about the cosmos is that I just need to flip up it's screen and use my PC screen.  In fact I do this to select shortcuts to startup most of my flight and racing sims.

I also do not understand why you get the Vivelense/Origin control tutorial after each update.  I do not see this.  Maybe there is a Setting item somewhere you need to deselect or something?

I know you stated your tracking issues were observations, not bugs.  I also am a heavy user (probably ~50% of my VR usage) of flight and racing sims like X Plane 11 and Assetto Corsa and perfect controller tracking is not really an issue with these.  However, it's still very important to me for my other VR games.  I tried a few archery, shotgun, fast rhythm , and slingshot games today and while the tracking was far from perfect I found that they were a lot more playable than with previous software.  My observations are just observations as well and it's probably understandable that our views may differ so please don't take it as me being critical.  I respect your observations and I expect you to do the same.  Cheers mate.

Edited October 31, 2019 by TomCgcmfc

[T]

55 minutes ago, TomCgcmfc said:

Sorry mate but the only thing I said I could care less about is not being able to select Origin as your startup place.   I guess for those that do want to do this the greyed out box (it's been greyed out since the first version btw) is something that needs fixing.  The rest I obviously do care a lot about, including your current issues or I wouild not bother replying to you.

I still do not see your need to jump into SteamVR dashboard but maybe you find this helpful.  Once I'm in the startup Homeless Vive void I rarely feel the need to go into origin.  When I do the animation does not seem to last all that long for me, maybe 10 seconds tops.  Could be I have a slightly faster PC than you, who knows (i9 9900k oc @ 5Ghz, gtx1080ti, 32gb 3000 ram, 1tb ssd, 4tb hdd).  I think that once you start going back/forth into SteamVR there is more potential for problems creeping in.  But I cannot say for sure.  I just try to avoid doing this.  If I need to change SteamVR setting I seem to be able to do this fine by right clicking on the SteamVR overlay that initially pops up when I startup Vive Console.  I also do not feel the need for a VR desktop since the nice thing about the cosmos is that I just need to flip up it's screen and use my PC screen.  In fact I do this to select shortcuts to startup most of my flight and racing sims.

I also do not understand why you get the Vivelense/Origin control tutorial after each update.  I do not see this.  Maybe there is a Setting item somewhere you need to deselect or something?

I know you stated your tracking issues were observations, not bugs.  I also am a heavy user (probably ~50% of my VR usage) of flight and racing sims like X Plane 11 and Assetto Corsa and perfect controller tracking is not really an issue with these.  However, it's still very important to me for my other VR games.  I tried a few archery, shotgun, fast rhythm , and slingshot games today and while the tracking was far from perfect I found that they were a lot more playable than with previous software.  My observations are just observations as well and it's probably understandable that our views may differ so please don't take it as me being critical.  I respect your observations and I expect you to do the same.  Cheers mate.

I did some testing and if I let the animation fade, Origin pops up after 30-34 secs, if I open SteamVR dashboard right after launching Origin, it appears after 10-12 secs and is usable as soon as you close SteamVR. Not terrible difference but not snappy either.

As for the Vivelens/Origin control tutorial after each update I don't understand either. I have tried a clean reinstall but that didn't help. But you must admit it's rather annoying to have the lessons after each update. I think we are at the sixth update in less than a month and between reinstalls and going beta/stable back and forth a couple of times, I must have memorized the whole speech.

As for my observations, don't worry these will eventually stop coming as I put the controllers in a box as I did my Vive controllers. In 3 years I might have charged them 10-20 times and mostly so the bateries don't degrade. Right now the Cosmos for me is mostly a thing to "take apart" and see how it works. When my technology interest diminishes, my presence probably too will diminish from this forum. If I want tracking to get better it's cause right now I can't recommend it to anyone that wants to use games with fine controller usage.

Besides some software hickups I too am satisfied with the Cosmos and I find it a better fit for me than the Vive.

Cheers to you too.

Edited October 31, 2019 by T

[A-Jey]

@stvnxu @C.T.

I just installed the new beta and did some testing.

The problem with having controllers up besides my head and moving them forward down again with getting tracking issues seems to be fixed.

The tracking problem due to brighter lights is still there and I did 2 longer videos with different conditions to showcase.
I uploaded an issue report right away together with a long description and links to the 2 showcase videos.
Hopefully I can help with that.

Regards 🙂
 

[A-Jey]

23 hours ago, TomCgcmfc said:

Nice update.  Controllers are much more stable and do not seem to bounce around much at all.  Also a lot better in low light.  I'll try brighter conditions tomorrow.  I was actually able to play a few archery and slingshot games a lot better.  I think we are ~90% there regarding tracking.  Only minor problem I noticed was sometimes I needed to click on an app several times within the lense menu in order to get it to go to it's start window.  Overall a nice trick and treat, lol!  Thanks.

I don't know if we can call it 90% already but if so then the last 10% are the most important ones.
Because they become pretty much important when it comes to competitive play.

On normal gaming I just can overlook some  controller jumps, I don't care that much because those are games where I enjoy the graphics and got time for maybe solve a little puzzle or whatever.

I think the Rift S also needed time to progress into the state where it's now.
So I see it as an ongoing process which can succeed better with more and more Cosmos headsets on the market to collect tracking data for the AI.

It's the way it needed to be thinked of when deciding to buy such a new product. I all needs the time.

It's like an early access game where you also could say: hey, why just don't make it perfect and then release.
On the other side: if you want hassle free, why not just waiting some months and then buy it?

[A-Jey]

Small preview on my stuff I send with the issue report...

Look the two pictures.

One is from my smartphone, the other from headset...
In my opinion the main problem is an overexposure on bright conditions by the headset.

[Subzer0]

Just wanted to provide my honest input.  The VIVE COSMOS is beautiful visually.  However, straight trash on the software/tracking front.  

Pros:  Screen visuals are great!

Things that are OK:  Sound

Cons:  1.  Tracking HMD and controllers.  2.  No ability to re-center your environment (what team missed this?  Come'on MAN).  3.  The BS lightning requirement is plain stupid.  On my Oculus Rift S, I can have on only a desk lamp and lay in the bed to watch movies or play games. All without issues with controller tracking nor getting the annoying message about your environment is to dark.  The controllers will get stuck as if they are unwilling to move as I'm instructing them to do.  Dont even get me typing my issues with gun games (Onward, Pavlov, Contractors).  We would be on this topic for a very long time.  4.  The front padding is not comfortable and will leave a pattern on your forehead lol.  Many many more major things I could bring up.  

Yes, the Oculus Rift S had similar issues on release minus the environment lightning BS message.  Rift S Release date was May 21, 2019 with a firm fix for tracking issues by June 28, 2019.  I understand HTC lost their partnership with Valve.  I dont understand why they would introduce this half ass bake product to the market.  Now I totally understand that you all may not have the winning team to compete moving forward.  

Amazon return date:  No Later than November 24, 2019. Get it together or its getting returned.

Myself VR Enthusiast and Products personally owned - x2 Oculus Rift CV1, Valve Index, Oculus Rift S, Oculus Quest, Gear VR (which had a re-center feature), HTC Cosmos.

Gamibg PC setup - 2080ti, i7 9700K, 2tb ssd 

Gaming Laptop setup - 1070 max q, i7 7700hq, 1tb ssd + 512 ssd

[TomCgcmfc]

@Subzer0

Total BS, or maybe a troll imho.  The Rift S took at least 3 months to get it right. Refer to the Oculus release notes if you do not believe this.

[Subzer0]

Not even doing this.  Still want to know why no re-center / rest view options...anyone?  You may continue @TomCgcmfc 

[stvnxu]

@A-Jey, @TomCgcmfc, @T, @eneienei, @Stopka 

Thanks again for all the feedback. Writing to you all to confirm I've collected and broke it down to review with our engineering team. Your honest posts and feedback has been extremely helpful and we will continue to listening very closely to improve Cosmos. You are all MVPs and trust me - we will make it up to you for the issues you've experienced at launch and sticking with us throughout. Stay tuned for more!! :3

 

 

[stvnxu]

Hi @Subzer0,

Thanks for your honest feedback! We do apologize for not meeting the quality of tracking you were expecting from our product. You are definitely not alone as others have expressed the same frustrations. This is our own fault and we are sorry. Currently, we are hard at work in pushing ongoing updates to improve the tracking experience, lighting environment requirements, and additional feature requests. Fortunately, this can all be addressed via software. Our promise is to improve the Cosmos to meet our customer expectation and also to exceed it with future add-ons / accessories. The community in this forum has been EXTREMELY helpful as you'll see most of their reported issues being addressed in our ongoing updates this past month. Please continue to share your honest feedback and issues. Thank you for your patience!

P.S. I totally hear ya on the re-center view. It's been forwarded to our engineering team so stay tuned!

Steve