Phr00t
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Posts posted by Phr00t
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14 hours ago, lamyipming said:
To do list:
1. Tracking optimization
2. Room orientation: recentre
3. Option to disable boundary
I noticed a new option in SteamVR when selecting the "Power" icon: reset seating position! This should take care of #2 and allow HTC to focus on #1 and #3.
I'm glad the updates keep coming, although it is hard to know exactly how much better the tracking is, since much of the experience is pretty subjective. I still notice quite a bit of wobble when holding my hands out infront of me otherwise still (or while making small movements). Occlusion, as others have stated, is still pretty bad when trying to hold a rifle.
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I've been pondering a reddit post (linked below) that had a theory: in "low" lighting situations, the rings on the controllers are still at maximum brightness. The headset cameras adjust exposure to let more light in for the environment, but this causes the light from the controllers to bloom. The bloom effect makes it harder for the Cosmos' cameras to detect the edges of the controller lighting lines and determine the exact position of the controllers. This would explain the controller "wobble" when holding them still, and might be a factor in other tracking issues. The potential solution: adjust the brightness of the controllers with the exposure of the cameras. This way, the controllers brightness will stay more consistent with the environment.
Please share this thought with your engineers. We are trying to help!
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On 12/13/2019 at 12:23 PM, stvnxu said:
Rest assure though, the updates will be ongoing until are customers are beyond satisfied with the inside-out tracking.
"No Man Sky" playbook: really bad launch, but sticks with it and continues to update it into something worthwhile. That is what I'm hoping for!
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Same problem here. It actually kicked me off of BETA saying my private key expired.
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My priority for future updates:
1) Controller tracking wobble. When holding a controller still, the virtual controller should stay still too. This wobble even happens when the glowing controller ring is in clear view. What I do NOT want to see as a "fix" is reducing movement sensitivity, as when I move the controller a little bit (say, to aim a gun better), I need the controller to track that accurately.
2) Reset seated position. This is a highly requested feature still missing.
3) Allow the boundary lines to be completely invisible through the Lens configuration. Do not cap it at 15. If we are setting it to zero, we have a good reason (probably because we are sitting).
4) Improve frame rate compensation <90 FPS. Far too many artifacts in the current system.
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I hope, at the very least, they continue to support the product with more updates (including significant tracking updates).
If they wanted to add insult to injury to us "early adopters", HTC would consider tracking "good enough" and for the "newly adjusted" price.
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Leap Motion did it: https://github.com/SDraw/driver_leap
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Is it then likely we will be able to use our hands as SteamVR controllers with an update?
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First, I want to say thank you for continuing to update this device. I know there is a ton of negativity, but all we really want to see is this device live up to its potential. Keep the updates coming, please. I kept this Cosmos device and I'm trying it out as my primary VR headset.
I definitely notice the reduced jitter on the user interface. This makes the headset tracking appear more solid.
I enabled the "performance priority" mode, but not sure exactly what it does. Why wouldn't we always want this enabled? I always want to reduce processing overhead!
Hard to tell if tracking has actually improved. There are many different things to test with the controllers and some things might be better (and hopefully others are not worse). I notice the worst tracking when I rotate my wrists away from the headset, so the cameras see less of the ring (but still enough where you'd expect tracking to still work). Oddly enough, the virtual hand came into my face when I rotated my wrist away from the cameras (while my hand was still outstretched).
I think the two biggest areas of tracking improvement needed are:
1) Detecting tracking position accurately when less of the visible ring is available (either by wrist rotation or mild occlusion).
2) Smoother exit and entry from camera views.
Another smaller issue: the IPD popup appears sometimes when moving your head... like it is a bit too sensitive. I'd make it require more IPD movement before making the popup appear.
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There is an option that is disabled by default, which in my short testing, changing may have made tracking better. Curious on what other people think.
Open this file with Vive Console and VivePort CLOSED and SteamVR NOT RUNNING:
<viveport install directory>\VIVE\Updater\App\ViveVRRuntime\ViveVR\ViveVRServer\config\default.vrsettings
Find the "externalPredictPose" section.
Change "diablePredictControllerPose" from true to false, so it looks like this:
"externalPredictPose" : {
"enable" : true,
"disableHMDVel" : true,
"disableControllerVel" : false,
"diablePredictHMDPose" : false,
"diablePredictControllerPose" : false
},I find it odd HMD pose prediction is enabled for the headset, but not for the controllers by default. I'm not sure if it was just a placebo effect, but setting the section to the above seemed to make for a better tracking experience. Try it out!
NOTE: diable is how it is, it is an HTC typo, not mine!
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Tried out this beta update.
Slightly better, but still pretty bad. These are the problems, in order of importance:
1) Controller and headset wobble. This can be easily reproduced by holding your hands out and making small movements with them. Rotating them slowly, or moving them back or forth, causes them to overshoot and/or wobble in place. They never feel solid. This makes shooting games hard to aim and the headset wobble contributes to motion sickness. This was a key factor in the scathing IGN review.
2) Controller occlusion. The controllers do really weird and unexpected things when occluded. For example, controller A was infront while B was occluded. I would move B side to side, and when I moved B to the right, the virtual hand would go left until the cameras picked it up again. Very often, the controller in the back would move up or down right when entering and exiting occlusion.
One thing I noticed, which I don't think has been reported yet -- when I set my room floor level, it looks fine when I'm close to the floor. After setting it and standing back up, the floor doesn't "stay down". The floor moves up a few inches. If I crouch back down, the floor goes back to where it should be.
What I think needs to be done, is a frank explanation of what the challenges are and what we should be expecting out of future updates. Are the engineers hopeful of a tracking breakthrough? Is this about as good as its going to get? Somewhere in between?
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12 minutes ago, lamyipming said:
Apparently my repeated complaints about disabling the boundary - or setting the boundary to completely transparent, i.e. exactly zero, didn't get passed on to the engineers.
If I sit near the boundary, the lines are still clearly visible and there's no way to disable that.
I don't understand where did HTC get the idea that all users must always want to stand in the center of the play area and will never once in a while sit on the sofa which happens to be located exactly at the freaking play area boundary to enjoy some movie with the VR headset. Yeah the users must still want to see the boundary lines so much even though they drag the opacity settings all the way to the far left. Let's always show them the boundaries in the movie player, it's good for them.
Please, HTC, this should be a very easy fix. I mean, this is my last post about this. If this never gets fixed, I'll just accept my fate and be responsible for my poor life choices.
Open up the configuration file located in <Viveport install directory>\VIVE\Updater\App\ViveVRRuntime\ViveVR\ViveVRServer\config\default.vrsettings
Under "collisionBounds" and "camera" you'll see options for the color (RGB) and alpha (A). Try setting these to zero. Feel free to mess with other values in this area to get rid of the bounds.
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UPDATES! YAY!
"Added fallback controller type" -- how does this work? Do I select a fallback controller type if a game doesn't have Vive Cosmos bindings? What controller type does it fallback to?
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I've been comparing Cosmos tracking to my Samsung Odyssey+, which also uses inside-out technology. It only has 2 cameras to work with, and is much cheaper, so you'd expect less performance from it. If Cosmos could match my Samsung Odyssey+, I'd consider that a significant improvement.
I do believe there is room for improvement over the current software; that isn't the problem... it is how good can it get and how long will it take to get there? I know you don't have the answer... I'm not even sure the engineering team does.
I am thankful for the updates you've provided thus far, and how well you've been listening. I'm really rooting for you guys here, we need as many (good) VR options on the market as possible.
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I'm worried one of the main problems is the lighting design on the controllers. Oculus and Windows Mixed Reality went with dots, and their tracking is solid. Cosmos went with thick lines with some sharp angles. May be harder to see and differentiate this from backgrounds, especially with variable lighting conditions. This is something that couldn't be solved by software updates. I doubt HTC would admit to this, though, since they'd have to have a path for owners to get replacement controllers.
It is really a shame, though! The visuals, field of view, audio and comfort on this headset is very good.
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Any idea on when to expect the next tracking update? My final return window ends on November 27th and I am getting a bit nervous. Although I did have fun during my last round of testing with the Cosmos, my Samsung Odyssey+ still delivers a better experience for hundreds less. The Cosmos could top the Odyssey+ if the Cosmos tracking was acceptable within its much larger tracking volume, but I'm only happy waiting for that update when I know I can get my money back if it doesn't show. I really appreciate all the work you've put into this, and I hope it continues...
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Played v1.8.0.3 tonight. Honestly, it was the most fun I've had in the headset. It was much harder to notice the edges of the field of view without the vignette.
However, can't say I'd recommend this headset just yet for $699. Tracking was... OK, but still worse than the competition. I think the biggest problems are wobbling controllers and controllers getting "stuck" (usually from brief occlusion or brief exit of the camera's tracking volume). I would still get occasional "low light" warnings. Headset tracking had a very slight wobble to it, but much better than the controllers.
Frame rate drops <90 FPS are quite apparent... I'd love to use the compensation option in Vive Console, but it causes significant artifacts, likely because it isn't using the depth buffer.
I think I'm going to keep it, and I really hope you guys keep improving it. I'm more hopeful than ever.
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After using v1.8.0.3 beta, I'd consider this issue resolved! Disabling the vignette squeezes out another ~2 degrees horizontal to about 98 degrees, and it feels like that is as good as its going to get. The Odyssey+ is a hair better horizontally, but I think the Cosmos is better vertically and diagonally by a hair. Thank you and well done!
I will note, you really need thinner facial padding (or none) to really benefit from this. Thinner forehead padding is icing on the cake.
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Look for a DisplayPort icon on the side of the NVIDIA card in these NVIDIA PhysX settings:
There should be a DisplayPort icon on the USB C port indicating it supports this "alternate" mode. If not, there might be another MiniDisplayPort on the laptop that outputs from the NVIDIA GPU, which case you'd need a MiniDisplayPort to DisplayPort cable. I haven't confirmed any cables of that type to work personally -- but I suspect one exists. If it says it supports DisplayPort v1.4 or 8K video, you should be OK.
EDIT: This information should be pinned, in my humble opinion.
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This one works, *IF* your USB C port is also a DisplayPort in "alternate" mode, *AND* it connects directly to your NVIDIA GPU:
https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-DisplayPort-Aluminum-Compatible/dp/B07F17ZHJY/
I use it with my Vive Cosmos. No other USB C -> DisplayPort cables worked.
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One thing I've noticed, which I didn't report due to more pressing issues: I don't think the chromatic abberation correction settings are accurate. When viewing white text in the center of your view, it is fine. As it moves into the edges of the display, it is very easy to see the red and blue channels separating. This seems to happen even within the "sweet spot".
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Can't wait to try this one out! Thank you! I presume this is how the setting is changed (haven't tested yet):
Viveport\VIVE\Updater\App\ViveVRRuntime\ViveVR\ViveVRServer\config\default.vrsettings
and the setting is:
"htcvr" : {
"ApplyHiddenMesh" : true,... where you change it to "false" while VivePort/Console is closed.
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Finally got around to trying out v1.0.8.1 today, and unfortunately I didn't get very far.
The headset briefly picked up my room and started tracking... for about 15 seconds. Then an error I've never seen before said "there are not enough features infront of you, please look around to improve tracking." Tracking was completely lost and my hands were floating freely. I looked around and it never regained tracking. I tried room setup, which quickly "read" the room and tried to have me position the floor. This is where I got stuck again... I couldn't set the floor level and the "no features infront of you" error remained.
I'll try again tomorrow with the sun shining through the windows, but I've had it work mostly tolerably in very similar conditions before (two lights on in my living room at night)... first time I've had this much of an issue with tracking in "low" lighting conditions.
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9 hours ago, stvnxu said:
@Phr00t, @A-Jey, @T , and all addtl Cosmos supporters reading this:
I would love to hear your feedback on this Beta version if you have the time and patience. Your feedback have been extremely helpful and valuable for our previous software updates pushed, and we want to continue to listen to our customers on what's working for you, what isn't, and what other features you're looking for.
Thank you!
STeve
Nothing was of my particular interest in the changelog. I'm looking for:
- Controller tracking improvements and stability
- A method to disable the vignette, or just see it gone altogether (like the Vive room setup transition screen)
I'm glad you are addressing other issues, but the above two are what I'm waiting for before doing any significant testing.
My "what I want after that" is:
- Better reprojection that uses the depth buffer. The current <90 FPS reprojection system creates significant artifacts and isn't tolerable.
- Less CPU intensive overhead with the compositor (which has to run on top of SteamVR's compositor)
Cosmos Beta release - 1.0.10.4
in VIVE Console Software
Posted · Edited by Phr00t
I finally decided to try out this beta myself.
The tracking was absolutely terrible. My hands were flying all over the place as I rotated my wrists, wobbling and only near where my hands were about 70% of the time. If Lighthouse provides 99% tracking accuracy, Rift S and WMR around 95% (within volume), Cosmos is 70% at best in this version. I'd say 1.0.9.6 was around 80% to 85%.
I did clear tracking data and redid room setup, as I do with every update.
This is the first time an update objectively is worse, which makes me wonder... is this just a little bug in this beta, or are we running out of ideas? I sure hope the former.